This is an interview that starts with a quiz question. Mark Lawrenson played for Liverpool for seven seasons in the 1980s.
He won five league titles, three League Cups, an FA Cup and a European Cup. But during those years of eminence, how many times did Liverpool beat Manchester United?
'I know it was not many,' Lawrenson says down the phone from his home in Southport. 'There was a League Cup final and then one we won with a Craig Johnston goal in a minging game at Old Trafford.