One day, when things are better, they will look back at the darkest of all the dark moments and the chances are a 2-0 home defeat by Manchester City last November will not figure.
But those who were there on that desperate Saturday know what they saw from Manchester United. Meekness, fear, resignation. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's team were beaten in a derby game almost before the first whistle had been blown.
So for Ralf Rangnick and his players the bar has not been set particularly high ahead of the return fixture at the Etihad on Sunday.